Snuiven VS Injecteren VS Heroïne Roken
- Thread starter DieYoung
- Start date
Alles draait om biologische beschikbaarheid
* Injectie - bijna 100% biologische beschikbaarheid. De drug komt onmiddellijk in de bloedbaan terecht, waardoor snelle en intense effecten ontstaan.
* Roken - ongeveer 40% - 60%
* Snuiven - ongeveer 30% - 40%
als je opioïde naïef bent, probeer dan niet te injecteren tenzij je dat wilt @DieYoung.
* Injectie - bijna 100% biologische beschikbaarheid. De drug komt onmiddellijk in de bloedbaan terecht, waardoor snelle en intense effecten ontstaan.
* Roken - ongeveer 40% - 60%
* Snuiven - ongeveer 30% - 40%
als je opioïde naïef bent, probeer dan niet te injecteren tenzij je dat wilt @DieYoung.
Hoge biologische beschikbaarheid betekent niet altijd het beste. Het hangt er zelfs vanaf wat je onder "het beste" verstaat. Ben je niet bekend met de stof en wil je het proberen? Heb je het verschillende keren geprobeerd en kom je er maar niet achter wat het beste bij je past? Ben je een ervaren gebruiker en wil je de tolerantie overwinnen? Enz.
bedankt ik ben gewoon nieuwsgierig een andere vraag heeft benzo tolerantie invloed op opiaat tolerantie?
- By Paracelsus
Ondanks verschillende primaire mechanismen kunnen zowel benzodiazepinen als opiaten overlappende effecten hebben op bepaalde hersensystemen, zoals het mesolimbische dopaminesysteem, dat betrokken is bij beloning en verslaving. Chronisch gebruik van een van beide middelen kan de chemie van de hersenen en het functioneren van receptoren veranderen op manieren die van invloed kunnen zijn op de algehele gevoeligheid van het centrale zenuwstelsel voor verschillende CNS-depressiva. Kortom 
- By Amphetfred24
Als ik iets mag toevoegen, benzo's en heroïne zijn een slechte mix.
Zelfs voor mensen met veel ervaring.
Ik heb in mijn carrière 6 keer een overdosis genomen, elke keer door het mengen van benzo's en heroïne.
Ik heb jaren gerookt + ook jaren met naalden. Zelden gesnoven.
Heroïne kan een wrede meesteres zijn
Zelfs voor mensen met veel ervaring.
Ik heb in mijn carrière 6 keer een overdosis genomen, elke keer door het mengen van benzo's en heroïne.
Ik heb jaren gerookt + ook jaren met naalden. Zelden gesnoven.
Heroïne kan een wrede meesteres zijn
injecteren is zo gevaarlijk, zijn veel moeilijk te OD tijdens het roken als je voelt het effect afther elke hit imediatly, snuiven en injecteren zijn riski omdat je ook 100-200 mg op een lijn en wachten om te schoppen en soms heroïne kan worden gesneden met somethink zelfs dodelijk, zoals voor injectie zijn hetzelfde u injecteren van een volledige dosis en het kick imediatly maar als heroïne slecht was kun je sterven van uw normale dosis je veilig voelt, dus mijn beste ROA is roken zijn litteraly als heroïne sterk is kun je in slaap vallen lang voordat je OD
For some reason I had almost no effect while smoking from foil, tried several times with tolerance breaks with no effect
- By loadingST
Are you on methadone, or probably a heavy injecter ?
This is kind of what happened to me I think. Ever since the fentanyl epidemic, my ceiling for opiate tolerance has been ridiculous. Trying to go back to anything weaker than fentanyl doesn't allow me to get a "high". I used IV when I could but mostly sniffing street bags. Now I use 80mg of methadone syrup orally daily and even the strong stuff doesn't hit like it used to. I've never had much luck with smoking it, always just seemed like a huge waste.
- By Blammo
Theses are all theoretically helpful, seems varying degrees.
The most recent and promising is SR17018. An experimental drug, it seems to be able to help reduce tolerance and I believe offset withdrawals. Double check me on that, but there are some reports on reddit of this being very helpful for people addicted to potent drugs like fentanyl, the zenes, spirochlorphine, ultra potent opioids known to jack up tolerance quickly.
Second is ultra low dose naltrexone, or ULDN. I can't remember how it is supposed to work, but I believe it is helpful in reducing tolerance buildup. Not 100%, just slowing it down. I don't think it inherently reduce tolerance like SR17018, just reduce the build up rate. It was investigated to for distribution in a pill with oxycodone, but for some "odd" reason they didn't finish the trials IIRC. It's super low doses, I forget exactly but like 1 to 20 micrograms, not milligrams, micrograms a day.
NMDA antagonists. They supposedly help reduce the rate of tolerance build up as well. Seems memantine is a good choice, but if you don't have access, then dextromethorphan, the cough syrup ingredient, does the same thing. Consider taking a longer acting syrup like delsym, as that will keep the drug in your system longer.
Together, this can reduce the rate of tolerance build up and with the SR 17018, make it easy to reduce usage and quit.
I've wanted to see what happens if someone used all three from the start, and see how fast tolerance builds up.
The most recent and promising is SR17018. An experimental drug, it seems to be able to help reduce tolerance and I believe offset withdrawals. Double check me on that, but there are some reports on reddit of this being very helpful for people addicted to potent drugs like fentanyl, the zenes, spirochlorphine, ultra potent opioids known to jack up tolerance quickly.
Second is ultra low dose naltrexone, or ULDN. I can't remember how it is supposed to work, but I believe it is helpful in reducing tolerance buildup. Not 100%, just slowing it down. I don't think it inherently reduce tolerance like SR17018, just reduce the build up rate. It was investigated to for distribution in a pill with oxycodone, but for some "odd" reason they didn't finish the trials IIRC. It's super low doses, I forget exactly but like 1 to 20 micrograms, not milligrams, micrograms a day.
NMDA antagonists. They supposedly help reduce the rate of tolerance build up as well. Seems memantine is a good choice, but if you don't have access, then dextromethorphan, the cough syrup ingredient, does the same thing. Consider taking a longer acting syrup like delsym, as that will keep the drug in your system longer.
Together, this can reduce the rate of tolerance build up and with the SR 17018, make it easy to reduce usage and quit.
I've wanted to see what happens if someone used all three from the start, and see how fast tolerance builds up.
That is some very interesting information, I have never heard of any of it. I have actually heard of the naltrexone being useful, but it was not used in the same manner. It was taken in small amounts on a daily basis to alleviate withdrawal symptoms or something, but it was just another "myth" of addict trash talk to me.
I've been my own guinea pig for about 25 years, this whole journey, especially walking the tightrope of opiate addiction, always trying to figure out if I can get a free lunch, or skip one, or substitute one, and just trying to reach for the stars and falling into the deepest pits.. and keep up with tomorrow... has made it one big learning curve that I am still struggling with and trying to get right.
This is definitely some interesting stuff to look into. If there can be a mechanism built into a tablet for example, of course they don't want that secret to get out. Letting that little chippy grow into full blown AIDS is death sentence
It was alot easier to kick when it was just heroin and whatever opiate. I used to be able to take a suboxone after 24 hour from last dose. Now even waiting over 48 sometimes, still only precipitates the worst withdrawal symptoms you can imagine - I am so scared of the Naloxone factor that I submitted to the one thing I always tried to resist and am terrified of - a methadone addiction. ...because of the withdrawal stories. Suboxone wasn;t really effectove with fentanyl addiction so much, atleast for me. Subutex is a product that has the buprenorphine without the naloxone. It could be pretty useful for most users. but I haven't been able to find it - I did get ripped off for a 100 pack of counterfeit ones though, at one point (years ago).
So you're saying taking DXM with the opiate works to extend the half life or some simillar effect to a degree?
That would be great to know. Or any other such manipulations.
Thank you for your time and information.
o7
This is definitely some interesting stuff to look into. If there can be a mechanism built into a tablet for example, of course they don't want that secret to get out. Letting that little chippy grow into full blown AIDS is death sentence
It was alot easier to kick when it was just heroin and whatever opiate. I used to be able to take a suboxone after 24 hour from last dose. Now even waiting over 48 sometimes, still only precipitates the worst withdrawal symptoms you can imagine - I am so scared of the Naloxone factor that I submitted to the one thing I always tried to resist and am terrified of - a methadone addiction. ...because of the withdrawal stories. Suboxone wasn;t really effectove with fentanyl addiction so much, atleast for me. Subutex is a product that has the buprenorphine without the naloxone. It could be pretty useful for most users. but I haven't been able to find it - I did get ripped off for a 100 pack of counterfeit ones though, at one point (years ago)
.So you're saying taking DXM with the opiate works to extend the half life or some simillar effect to a degree?
That would be great to know. Or any other such manipulations.
Thank you for your time and information.
o7
- By Blammo
First, please double check me, as it's been a little while since I've reviewed this actively.
SR17018 seems to do two things, help prevent withdrawals, and also actively reduce tolerance. So like a sort of different acting methadone (helps prevent withdrawal symptoms and cravings) and seems to reduce tolerance over time (a faster reduction in tolerance than other methods). Seemingly very helpful with addiction to ultra potent opioids like fentanyl
I don't believe it prevents tolerance builf up actually, but I'm still investigating. Seems to prevent withdrawal, and reduce tolerance.
NMDA Antagonists
DXM, and other such drugs, seem to help reduce the build up of tolerance. So if you would increase your dose say 10% after one week of using, you might only need to do so at say 7%. Numbers are only to demonstrate the idea, not exact. Doesnt stop it, just slows it down.
I forget the mechanism, but dxm is a common nmda antagonist that is relatively cheap, and very available. Other drugs do the same thing, like memantine, but are prescription drugs.
Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone.
ULDN seems to slow tolerance build up as well, and might require less doses of the drug for the same effect. The tolerance build up is slowed down, and it seems ot make lowering your dose more comfortable. This was tested for analgesia, no recreational effects, and it made one dose of morphine as effective as a lower dose, again analgesia only.
Seems that twice a day dosing is best, but the exact dosing is forgotten, like 20 to 50 microgrsms a day maybe? Very very very low. One could buy some naltrexone pills, do some math for liquid suspension, and be set for years if dissolved in grain alcohol and keeping in freezer.
Together, I think one could really help keep opioid addiciton under control better. Tolerance would be managed better, and the sr17018 would help reduce tolerance comfortably when you need to take a break.
SR17018 seems to do two things, help prevent withdrawals, and also actively reduce tolerance. So like a sort of different acting methadone (helps prevent withdrawal symptoms and cravings) and seems to reduce tolerance over time (a faster reduction in tolerance than other methods). Seemingly very helpful with addiction to ultra potent opioids like fentanyl
I don't believe it prevents tolerance builf up actually, but I'm still investigating. Seems to prevent withdrawal, and reduce tolerance.
NMDA Antagonists
DXM, and other such drugs, seem to help reduce the build up of tolerance. So if you would increase your dose say 10% after one week of using, you might only need to do so at say 7%. Numbers are only to demonstrate the idea, not exact. Doesnt stop it, just slows it down.
I forget the mechanism, but dxm is a common nmda antagonist that is relatively cheap, and very available. Other drugs do the same thing, like memantine, but are prescription drugs.
Ultra Low Dose Naltrexone.
ULDN seems to slow tolerance build up as well, and might require less doses of the drug for the same effect. The tolerance build up is slowed down, and it seems ot make lowering your dose more comfortable. This was tested for analgesia, no recreational effects, and it made one dose of morphine as effective as a lower dose, again analgesia only.
Seems that twice a day dosing is best, but the exact dosing is forgotten, like 20 to 50 microgrsms a day maybe? Very very very low. One could buy some naltrexone pills, do some math for liquid suspension, and be set for years if dissolved in grain alcohol and keeping in freezer.
Together, I think one could really help keep opioid addiciton under control better. Tolerance would be managed better, and the sr17018 would help reduce tolerance comfortably when you need to take a break.