N-Isopropylbenzylamine with racemic Meth?
- Thread starter Seekinglife01
- Start date
you prolly shouldnt do that without being transparent to your customers..
also im not certain anyway that this would work alot better than just optimizing actual methamphetamine crystallization process...
still contemplating whether or not to post a n-isopropylbenzylamin simple synthesis, one on hand information should be freely available on the other enabeling people to cut with agents that potentially could be harmful (although Im certain the danger of n-isopropylbenzylamin have been overblown to say the least on drug forums etc)
also im not certain anyway that this would work alot better than just optimizing actual methamphetamine crystallization process...
still contemplating whether or not to post a n-isopropylbenzylamin simple synthesis, one on hand information should be freely available on the other enabeling people to cut with agents that potentially could be harmful (although Im certain the danger of n-isopropylbenzylamin have been overblown to say the least on drug forums etc)
Aren't there rules here against cutting agents?
- By A5kL3Pi0s
its not a cutting agent necessarily, for the sake of information freedom sharing synthesis of structural isomers of methamphetamine could be interesting (thats what I thought atleast) and ofc we could warn/raise awareness on how to spot meth thats likely cut (soweit das möglich ist...) yk
They wouldn't "fuse together, but they would form a solid mass. All you have to do is let it sit there long enough to evaporate all of the water. Then there in nowhere for it to go. Let's call it "a matrix" it's crystals, and a solid(ish) mass, but close inspection reveals that it's not linear and the grain of the crystals go in all directions. Look at some huge crystals and you'll see it
This for instance, is obviously more than 1 type of crystal
Those look like the greasy shadow master super shards that bug you out to the nth dimension.
I think liquid A/B would lose the majority of cuts and just about all of it, then whatever was left followed by acetone/MEK/diethyl ether (I think?) cold, anhydrous of course. It may not be necessary, you are probably just losing product after a certain point, but so you know the various ways to rinse it. Then the alcohol rextallization - this is a subjective art form. Secrets passed down from generation to generation.
Oh and yes, we can teach you how to fit all of that n-ISO directly into and up your ass. I mean for the sake of others and everyone who wants to learn and raise awareness and be able to identify various cuts in their product. We did have a similar thread going about crack backs and what not when smoking, it can tell you alot about your scante.
I think liquid A/B would lose the majority of cuts and just about all of it, then whatever was left followed by acetone/MEK/diethyl ether (I think?) cold, anhydrous of course. It may not be necessary, you are probably just losing product after a certain point, but so you know the various ways to rinse it. Then the alcohol rextallization - this is a subjective art form. Secrets passed down from generation to generation.
Oh and yes, we can teach you how to fit all of that n-ISO directly into and up your ass. I mean for the sake of others and everyone who wants to learn and raise awareness and be able to identify various cuts in their product. We did have a similar thread going about crack backs and what not when smoking, it can tell you alot about your scante.
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Yea we didn't even talk about Crack back opening, it's like reading tea leaves. People I know say sticking it up tnier ass got them way too high and they about od"ed. I'm not into putting stuff in my ass so I'll never know personally
That is kind of how this last merchandise I picked up is going. Pretty decent, you can see the jagged broken ice fishing hole clear edges - ie the good stuff. Then the other part cools down slower and forms the yellowish square/cube pattern addition, which is not homogenous to the good stuff, it seperates but is whole. I am noticing two other patterns in it also, one is a mini spiderweb pattern, the other is the squares both with black line edges, not clear edged. I'll work on getting some new pics - we should get a new thread about this going, this is surprisingly not talked about here...
When 6qas sear hing duckduckgo.0nion for "large methamphetamine crystal" I saw pictures of some crystals, the author said were N-iso he was separating from some meth, but to me were definitely L-meth. I deleted my reddit account after getting a message I didn't like, so I can't see the post or what it said
- By A5kL3Pi0s
@SoldadoDeDrogas yes please start a collection-thread on n-iso, I'd happily helpw with it and deliver a fully wirtten out synthesis if you want, so we can then dissect it (chemically) and come up with ideas on how to seperate it from meth again (dissolve, seperate [maybe add some drying agent], recrystallize) and so on
While I personally think n-isopropybenzylamine is not nearly as "toxic" as some people love to claim in posts blowing the problem waaaay out of proportion (since n-isopropylbenzylamine isnt even mass produced anymore and cutting with it is already kinda rare) raising awareness about it or potential, psychoactive or not , effects (or even potential long term health issues that might arise) could still be deemed a worthy contribution to harm reduction on bb...
While I personally think n-isopropybenzylamine is not nearly as "toxic" as some people love to claim in posts blowing the problem waaaay out of proportion (since n-isopropylbenzylamine isnt even mass produced anymore and cutting with it is already kinda rare) raising awareness about it or potential, psychoactive or not , effects (or even potential long term health issues that might arise) could still be deemed a worthy contribution to harm reduction on bb...
I've never in my research have seen a single peer reviewed or or official document that suggests N-iso in ss ever been found in merh or that anyone was selling it as a counterfeit drug. I could consider that there is an international conspiracy to never admit that meth is cut with it or it is sold as meth (it would be a federal crime under the analogs act, and treated the same as if it were meth, but state laws vary) Furthermore, the site "Drugs.data" a harm prevention site you can send your drugs to with $100 and a title that the sender would recognize. They used to be part of the site Erowid. They say that they have bought the standard twice and it has an easily differentiated gc/ms profile, and they've never encountered it. If you have any peer reviewed or legitimate government. Data that suggests it was used as an adulterant, I'd love to see it.
- By A5kL3Pi0s
While I agree, that its way overstated and not common at all, here some links (both interesting as well as seemingly a proof of atleast one actual sample of meth being cut with n-iso, drug checking result from Swiss drug checking service)
WARNING CLEARWEB:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2021/6679515
https://www.saferparty.ch/warnungen/isopropylbenzylamin-verkauft-als-methamphetamin-220823 (SWISS-German, drug checking result)
WARNING CLEARWEB:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1155/2021/6679515
https://www.saferparty.ch/warnungen/isopropylbenzylamin-verkauft-als-methamphetamin-220823 (SWISS-German, drug checking result)
I interestingly the first 2 links cite sources that are dead links on Google scholar. Meaning, either they were retracted on peer review or the dea/Google decided you don't need to see them
- By Archanfel
That's pretty strange since the evidence that n-iso is used to cut meth in different places around the world is pretty easy to find. This isespecially true in Australia were people/gtoups use it to cut the majority/completely l-meth that they sell as ICE currently in Australia.
" In 2007–2008, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reports have shown that a compound called N‐isopropylbenzylamine (n‐(1‐methylethyl)‐benzenemethanamin, N‐ipb, Figure 1) has been used first as an adulterant or substitute for METH in seized drug samples in the United States. 13 , 14 , 15
In New Zealand, many products of ‘pure METH’ sold in the street are adulterated with at least 50% of N‐ipb. 17 Additionally, drug dealers in China have sold N‐ipb as fake ‘Ice’ METH in many recorded cases. Although N‐ipb is a border controlled substance in Australia, it is not currently known as a controlled substance in other countries."
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Over the course of the next month the origins and links between multiple consignments seized by the ABF were reviewed and found to contain border controlled substances, including eight kilograms of isopropylbenzylamine (a methamphetamine analogue) and quantities of heroin, cocaine and other drugs from various source countries"
"New Zealand’s drug checking organisations (KnowYourStuff, NZ Needle Exchange and NZ Drug Foundation) have been seeing something called n-isopropylbenzylamine (shortened to n-iso) turning up in substances that people thought were methamphetamine."
thelevel.org.nz
"Crime gangs import legal chemical to make cheap and deadly imitation meth
Crime gangs are deploying Breaking Bad methods and exploiting legal loopholes to mass-produce a new “imitation” meth, which is cheaper to produce but more hazardous. Australian crime gangs are importing a chemical known as “ISO” to produce a cheap and deadly imitation meth.
Criminals are using a legally imported chemical to flood Melbourne streets with a cheap, potent and dangerous new “imitation” methamphetamine"
" In 2007–2008, Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reports have shown that a compound called N‐isopropylbenzylamine (n‐(1‐methylethyl)‐benzenemethanamin, N‐ipb, Figure 1) has been used first as an adulterant or substitute for METH in seized drug samples in the United States. 13 , 14 , 15
In New Zealand, many products of ‘pure METH’ sold in the street are adulterated with at least 50% of N‐ipb. 17 Additionally, drug dealers in China have sold N‐ipb as fake ‘Ice’ METH in many recorded cases. Although N‐ipb is a border controlled substance in Australia, it is not currently known as a controlled substance in other countries."
N‐Isopropylbenzylamine‐induced conditioned place preference, sensitization behaviour and self‐administration in rodents - PMC
N‐Isopropylbenzylamine (N‐ipb), a chain isomer of methamphetamine (METH) with similar physical properties, has been used as a substitute for METH in seized drug samples. However, the abuse potential of N‐ipb remains unclear. Therefore, this study ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
"Over the course of the next month the origins and links between multiple consignments seized by the ABF were reviewed and found to contain border controlled substances, including eight kilograms of isopropylbenzylamine (a methamphetamine analogue) and quantities of heroin, cocaine and other drugs from various source countries"
"New Zealand’s drug checking organisations (KnowYourStuff, NZ Needle Exchange and NZ Drug Foundation) have been seeing something called n-isopropylbenzylamine (shortened to n-iso) turning up in substances that people thought were methamphetamine."
What is n-iso? - The Level
New Zealand’s drug checking organisations have been seeing something called n-isopropylbenzylamine lately. Here's what we know.
"Crime gangs import legal chemical to make cheap and deadly imitation meth
Crime gangs are deploying Breaking Bad methods and exploiting legal loopholes to mass-produce a new “imitation” meth, which is cheaper to produce but more hazardous. Australian crime gangs are importing a chemical known as “ISO” to produce a cheap and deadly imitation meth.
Criminals are using a legally imported chemical to flood Melbourne streets with a cheap, potent and dangerous new “imitation” methamphetamine"
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- By A5kL3Pi0s
Im not australian but "heraldsun" kinda sounds like its a tabloid. Either way, Im 99% sure that for the most part "crime gangs" dont product n-iso themselves, but import(ed!!) it from china. N-iso was extremely cheap in china until a few months ago and was mass imported in the 10s to 100dreds of kg ranges for so cheap it was basically free. N-iso was outlawed in china and the supply aprubtly stopped. It doesnt imitate meth really, it just looks like it, but DEADLY or POTENT and DANGEROUS? oh come on, its non of these 3 things, yes there isnt alot of toxicological data, but lets be real, n-iso isnt "potent" at all and in normal doses wont kill you either. Dangerous hm maybe in the sense of its long term toxicological effects being unkown, but at the same time: if youre smoking meth, n-iso is prolly the least damaging compound you ingest... cheap it was tho, very very fucking cheap.
This is exactly what I ment. A prime example of blowing shit out of proportion. I strongly believe that this phenomenon will vanish as fast as it came. without new supply, no new n-iso (and Id be surprised if cartels/gangs really startet synthesizing an basically worthless and almost inactive structural isomer of meth, like they dont mass produce benzocain themselves either, they bought it, then it got known, so they switched to lidocain, then procain and so on. Its just not worth anyones time to manufacture a cutting agent in a clandestine lab imo, in the time used to produce it, one coudlve made enough meth to counterbalance potentially slimmed down profit margins after they had to stop cutting their product)
This is exactly what I ment. A prime example of blowing shit out of proportion. I strongly believe that this phenomenon will vanish as fast as it came. without new supply, no new n-iso (and Id be surprised if cartels/gangs really startet synthesizing an basically worthless and almost inactive structural isomer of meth, like they dont mass produce benzocain themselves either, they bought it, then it got known, so they switched to lidocain, then procain and so on. Its just not worth anyones time to manufacture a cutting agent in a clandestine lab imo, in the time used to produce it, one coudlve made enough meth to counterbalance potentially slimmed down profit margins after they had to stop cutting their product)
- By Archanfel
1 I am Australia and know individuals involved in the biggest group who has most control over the illegal drug trade in Australia (Comancheros MC) who cut their drugs to make more money including using n-iso to cut meth with. I provided evidence that this is true including
* A article from the Australian Federal Police; Australian Border Force; Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission which details their arrests of people attempting to import meth and n-iso into Australia.
* An article from New Zealand that details that n-iso was found in meth examples tested which only happened after the 501 deportees who were member of the Comancheros MC were deported from Australia and back to New Zealand who have the connections to international organised crime groups including in Mexico/China. This allowed them to import and distribute their Crystal Meth in New Zealand which they cut with n-iso as part of their business practices to make more money.
* A Herald Sun article that details the facts from a Court trial that you can look up and see actually happened which includes the people involved using n-iso cut meth and sell as meth
Groups involved in the illegal drug trade in Australia have international connections including to China where they hate get their n-iso to cut Crystal Meth with here.
2 I already know it extremely cheap in China as this was one reason groups in Australia decided to use it to cut meth with as they can make almost up to $ 1,000 times what they pay for it in China since Australians are incredibly stupid and will pay top dollar for terrible quality drugs.
Please provide when n-iso was outlawed in china and even if it was outlawed it doesnt mean that people/groups aren't still manufacturing it, just look at the illegal steroid manufacturing that still goes in China despite multiple crackdowns.
3 N-ISO looks like meth and will come up as meth in some drug testing methods used. It also dangerous as it causes various negative effects when taken which is shown from the research on it as a substance to cut meth with and from the Material Safety Data Sheet from chemical companies. I have experienced those things myself and since most Crystal Meth currently being sold in Australia is majority l-meth which is cut with n-iso it's not the most dangerous thing I have taken. It makes far worse the negative effects of l-meth that I experience including serve nerve pain from the vasoconstriction in scar tissue I have from surgery years ago which I never experienced when I used d-meth for 5 years as a functional drug.
"N-isopropylbenzylamine, a methamphetamine mimics, produces toxicity via increasing nitric oxide in vitro"
" Material Safety Data Sheet"
4 It's only blown out of proportion if you are talking about Australia and New Zealand since the far bigger issue is that what the majority of people sell as Crystal Meth in Australia is majority l-meth with a little bit of d-meth/completely l-meth with no d-meth at all. It won't disappear and will only grow much stronger especially in Australia and New Zealand since heavily cutting drugs like stimulants with other substances is standard practice for all groups involved in the illegal drug trade which started with Peter Hill (one of the original members of the Melbourne chapter of the Hells Angles) who first introduced amphetamine in Australia in 1980 and which he would cut to make as much money as possible
5 It will still be made in China even if it's done illegally just as various illegal steroids are manufactured despite various crackdowns. As one of the research articles I linked to points out n-iso isnt a controlled substance in many countries so people could even start making it in other places. Organised Crime Groups will buy it from those Chinese manufacturers so they can make as much money as possible with the limited amount of meth they have
* A article from the Australian Federal Police; Australian Border Force; Australian Criminal Intelligence Commission which details their arrests of people attempting to import meth and n-iso into Australia.
* An article from New Zealand that details that n-iso was found in meth examples tested which only happened after the 501 deportees who were member of the Comancheros MC were deported from Australia and back to New Zealand who have the connections to international organised crime groups including in Mexico/China. This allowed them to import and distribute their Crystal Meth in New Zealand which they cut with n-iso as part of their business practices to make more money.
* A Herald Sun article that details the facts from a Court trial that you can look up and see actually happened which includes the people involved using n-iso cut meth and sell as meth
Groups involved in the illegal drug trade in Australia have international connections including to China where they hate get their n-iso to cut Crystal Meth with here.
2 I already know it extremely cheap in China as this was one reason groups in Australia decided to use it to cut meth with as they can make almost up to $ 1,000 times what they pay for it in China since Australians are incredibly stupid and will pay top dollar for terrible quality drugs.
Please provide when n-iso was outlawed in china and even if it was outlawed it doesnt mean that people/groups aren't still manufacturing it, just look at the illegal steroid manufacturing that still goes in China despite multiple crackdowns.
3 N-ISO looks like meth and will come up as meth in some drug testing methods used. It also dangerous as it causes various negative effects when taken which is shown from the research on it as a substance to cut meth with and from the Material Safety Data Sheet from chemical companies. I have experienced those things myself and since most Crystal Meth currently being sold in Australia is majority l-meth which is cut with n-iso it's not the most dangerous thing I have taken. It makes far worse the negative effects of l-meth that I experience including serve nerve pain from the vasoconstriction in scar tissue I have from surgery years ago which I never experienced when I used d-meth for 5 years as a functional drug.
"N-isopropylbenzylamine, a methamphetamine mimics, produces toxicity via increasing nitric oxide in vitro"
" Material Safety Data Sheet"
Purity - Truth/myths of n-isopropylbenzylamine
Material Safety Data Sheet Version 3.3 Revision Date 04/09/2013 Print Date 05/10/2013 COMPANY IDENTIFICATION Product name : N-Isopropylbenzylamine Product Number : 136964 Brand : Aldrich Supplier : Sigma-Aldrich 3050 Spruce Street SAINT LOUIS MO 63103 USA Telephone : +1...
drugs-forum.com
4 It's only blown out of proportion if you are talking about Australia and New Zealand since the far bigger issue is that what the majority of people sell as Crystal Meth in Australia is majority l-meth with a little bit of d-meth/completely l-meth with no d-meth at all. It won't disappear and will only grow much stronger especially in Australia and New Zealand since heavily cutting drugs like stimulants with other substances is standard practice for all groups involved in the illegal drug trade which started with Peter Hill (one of the original members of the Melbourne chapter of the Hells Angles) who first introduced amphetamine in Australia in 1980 and which he would cut to make as much money as possible
5 It will still be made in China even if it's done illegally just as various illegal steroids are manufactured despite various crackdowns. As one of the research articles I linked to points out n-iso isnt a controlled substance in many countries so people could even start making it in other places. Organised Crime Groups will buy it from those Chinese manufacturers so they can make as much money as possible with the limited amount of meth they have
- By A5kL3Pi0s
"in vitro"... that study is debatable, but ok lets take it at face value: n-isopropylbenzylamine constricts blood vessels, aight if youre healthy and use meth recreationally from time to time, this isnt a major issue. Its far from ideal, but imo still overstated.
As far as MSDS go: Ligma Balldrich and other chemical companies write those documents because they dont want to be liable in case someone gets hurt. Its similar to medication packaging, they state EVERYTHING that COULD happen, just to save themselves from legal charges. MSDS for water for example often advise you to use saftey glasses, gloves and a lab coat when handeling H2O.
You get my point - Ill give you that its not ideal/healthy, but when compared to meth (abuse) itself its prolly better tolerated.
n-isopropylbenzylamine is also rather easy to synthesize, you dont need to be "organised crime" or part of a similar nafarious group - why does it show up on meth drugtestests? well its a structural isomer of meth and those urine/at home tests dont actually check for the substance, but rather only react with part of the phenyl-tail (depends on what test ofc); thats also why nasal decongestant shows up as meth with those test-strips...
Cant say anything about anything else you wrote, as Im not australian
As far as MSDS go: Ligma Balldrich and other chemical companies write those documents because they dont want to be liable in case someone gets hurt. Its similar to medication packaging, they state EVERYTHING that COULD happen, just to save themselves from legal charges. MSDS for water for example often advise you to use saftey glasses, gloves and a lab coat when handeling H2O.
You get my point - Ill give you that its not ideal/healthy, but when compared to meth (abuse) itself its prolly better tolerated.
n-isopropylbenzylamine is also rather easy to synthesize, you dont need to be "organised crime" or part of a similar nafarious group - why does it show up on meth drugtestests? well its a structural isomer of meth and those urine/at home tests dont actually check for the substance, but rather only react with part of the phenyl-tail (depends on what test ofc); thats also why nasal decongestant shows up as meth with those test-strips...
Cant say anything about anything else you wrote, as Im not australian
It doesn't appear as if it made a difference in appearance. I sent some cold dry acetone through my meth packed tube, less than 2ml for 3g, and a little extra to rinse it off. 3g turned into 2.3g dry after the wash. Noticable observations during the first bowl with washed tina include a noticably less yellow-ish / square pattern to the crackback and progression of smoking it - it is much more bright and clear. It still cools into the non-homogenous crust but the pattern is much less pronounced.
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I got some meth a couple of weeks ago that didn't test positive for amphetamines via marquis reagent, so I climbed in that rabbit hole and at the bottom appeared to be PABA, a crystalline substance that they sell at GNC and the like, it's closer to meth in looks and melting point than MSM. I suspect it is the new msm, harder to detect, but just as easy to buy.