Gabapentinoidi proti anksioznosti. Izjemen fenibut

Paracelsus

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Danes bomo govorili o skupini snovi, ki imajo zanimive mehanizme delovanja in številne uporabe kot pomirjevalo, sredstvo proti tesnobi in hipnotik. Govorili bomo o gabapentinoidih na splošno in njihovem nenavadnem predstavniku - fenibutu.

Zakaj bi lahko bil zanimiv za uporabnike Breaking Bad? Po mojem mnenju je tesnoba ena od težav, ki danes ne spremlja le ljudi, katerih življenje je povezano s tveganjem, psihoaktivnimi snovmi in napornim delom, ampak tudi skoraj vse na splošno. Živimo v času velikih sprememb in premikov paradigem. To je zelo zanimiv čas. Lahko pa je neprijeten za psiho in subjektivno dojemanje življenja.

Običajno tesnobo utišamo s pomirjevali, vendar so to po mojem mnenju preveč drastični ukrepi. Pomirjeval ne maram zaradi njihovih stranskih učinkov in visokega, za medicinsko snov, potenciala zasvojenosti. Uporabiti jih je treba takrat, ko druge metode ne pomagajo. Zato želim vašo pozornost usmeriti na drugo skupino zdravil. Ta so dostopnejša, manj zasvojljiva in lahko s pravim pristopom pomagajo odpraviti manifestacije tesnobe tako v vsakdanjem življenju kot pri uporabi snovi ali med dejavnostmi okrevanja.


Gabapentinoidi

Gabapentinoidi so skupina zdravil, ki nejasno spominjajo na nevrotransmiter gama-aminomaslena kislina (GABA) (tj. analogi GABA). Čeprav so bili zasnovani tako, da posnemajo delovanje GABA, so v novejših študijah ugotovili, da vplivajo na drugo tarčo, podenoto A2D kalcijevih kanalov. FDA je odobrila dva gabapentinoida: gabapentin in pregabalin. Nekaj drugih se trenutno preizkuša (imagabalin), drugi se uporabljajo v znanstvenih raziskavah (atagabalin).

Gabapentin je univerzalno zdravilo od leta 2004. Običajno se uporablja pri napadih, živčnih bolečinah, alkoholizmu, odvisnosti od drog, srbenju, nemirnih nogah, motnjah spanja in tesnobi. Ima nenavadno širok razpon odmerkov: priporočila predlagajo uporabo od 100 mg do 3600 mg na dan. Večina zdravnikov ga uporablja v nizkih odmerkih, pri katerih je precej neopazen (beri: običajno ne deluje). Na najvišji ravni pa lahko povzroči sedacijo, zmedenost in zasvojenost.


DnuoyKrdU5

Mehanizem delovanja pregabalina. Modulira hiperekscitacijo nevronov po naslednjem mehanizmu:
Pregabalin se veže na presinaptične nevrone na podenoto alfa2-delta (α 2-δ) napetostnih kalcijevih kanalov.
Vezava zdravila zmanjša dotok kalcija v presinaptične terminale. Zmanjšan kalcijev dotok zmanjša prekomerno sproščanje
vzburjevalnih nevrotransmitorjev (npr. glutamata, substance P, noradrenalina).


Z vidika znanstvenikov, ki so analizirali pregabalin, ta vsekakor počne isto kot gabapentin. V praksi pa se pogosto izkaže, da gabapentin ne deluje tako dobro. Bolniki tudi pri minimalnih manifestacijah anksioznosti ne morejo shajati samo z gabapentinom. Študije sicer potrjujejo, da je pregabalin odličen pri anksioznosti. Hkrati se gabapentin dobro izkaže le v nekaterih primerih, na primer pri socialni fobiji. Pri paniki ali agorafobiji ni učinkovit, pri generalizirani anksiozni motnji pa se izkaže le v kombinaciji s pomirjevali. Zakaj se to zgodi, še vedno ni jasno.

Ena od možnosti je, da so odmerki teh snovi, ki jih jemljemo, nepravilni. UpToDate priporoča zdravljenje anksioznih motenj z gabapentinom z začetnim odmerkom 600 mg na dan. Priporoča pa 300 mg pregabalina na dan. Ta tabela odmerkov predvideva, da je 1 mg pregabalina = 5 mg gabapentina, torej 300 mg pregabalina = 1500 mg gabapentina! Morda se to, kar si oni predstavljajo kot "velik odmerek" gabapentina, ujema s tem, kar si mi predstavljamo kot "majhen odmerek" pregabalina. Morda so vsi odmerki gabapentina preprosto premajhni? To je odprto vprašanje, vendar ne priporočilo za uživanje več gabapentina. Ne pozabite, da več mg - več tveganj za neželene učinke.

Drug možen razlog je kakšen nejasen farmakološki mehanizem. V eni od raziskav smo poskušali primerjati farmakologijo dveh zdravil. Pravijo, da telo brez težav absorbira pregabalin, ima pa omejeno sposobnost absorpcije gabapentina - več ko je gabapentina, manjši je odstotek absorbcije.

Še ena pomembna razlika: gabapentin običajno ni nadzorovana snov ali je manj nadzorovana, pregabalin pa tehnično povzroča zasvojenost, vendar se s tem ni vredno preveč obremenjevati. Čeprav je teoretično mogoče postati odvisen od gabapentina, bi moral biti, če vzamete res velik odmerek in se zelo potrudite, obupan tudi po merilih odvisnikov od drog. Primerov odvisnosti od pregabalina je veliko več, čeprav se večina strokovnjakov strinja, da je to še vedno precej neobičajno. Eden od verjetnih krivcev je hitrost absorpcije: pregabalin se absorbira v približno eni uri, gabapentin pa v treh ali štirih. Hitro delujoče snovi vedno povzročajo večjo zasvojenost; njihov vrh je višji in zgodnejši, možgani pa lažje povežejo spodbudo (jemanje droge) z reakcijo (dober občutek).



Fenibut

91DuRroLT3


Po klasifikacijskem sistemu anatomsko-terapevtske kemije (ATC) je fenibut dosledno vključen v skupine analeptikov, psihostimulantov, zdravil za ADHD in nootropikov. Že na tej stopnji se začnejo čudne stvari. Prej smo izrecno govorili o učinkih proti tesnobi, pomirjanju in s tem pomirjanju, tukaj pa vidimo nasprotno - fenibut je naveden kot stimulans.

V večini držav se fenibut prodaja brez recepta. Poleg tega se pogosto ne prodaja kot zdravilo, temveč kot prehransko dopolnilo v trgovinah in ne v lekarnah. Ne priporočam, da v trgovinah ali na spletu kupujete fenibut v obliki praška ali brez običajne medicinske embalaže - ni znano, kaj boste v tem primeru zaužili v notranjosti. Fenibut se splača kupiti v lekarnah ali vsaj v pakiranjih pod licenčnimi imeni Phenibut, Phenibut, Noofen, Citrocard.

Smešno je, da FDA včasih poziva ljudi, naj ga prenehajo prodajati, vendar nikoli niso postali resni in je še vedno zlahka dostopen na odprtem spletu. V nekaterih državah pa so ga v zadnjih letih začeli izdajati na recept. To velja predvsem za države nekdanje Sovjetske zveze. Ob tem me je prešinila smešna misel, da dostopnost fenibuta odraža stopnjo svobode v družbi. Dokler je prosto dostopen, se lahko sprostite. Toda dovolj je bilo šal, nadaljujmo.

Glede socialne anksioznosti, preprečevanja paničnih reakcij, agorafobije, generalizirane anksioznosti fenibut pogosto kaže zelo dobre rezultate. Poleg tega lahko daje težko opisljiv občutek miru in dobrega počutja.

Zgodnje raziskave fenibuta so se osredotočile na GABA, glavni zaviralni nevrotransmiter. Možgani imajo dve vrsti receptorjev GABA, GABA-A in GABA-B. Alkohol, Xanax, Valium, Ambien, barbituati in druga klasična pomirjevala delujejo na receptorje GABA-A. Ni veliko kemikalij, ki delujejo na receptorje GABA-B, tistih nekaj, ki jih je, pa je precej čudnih - ena od njih je na Zemljo padla z meteoritom. Fenibut je agonist GABA-B. To se sliši kot elegantna rešitev skrivnosti: zdravilo z edinstvenimi protistresnimi lastnostmi vpliva na edinstven zaviralni receptor. Toda drug agonist GABA-B, baklofen, ima minimalne učinke proti tesnobi. Večinoma je le dolgočasno sredstvo za sproščanje mišic (nekaj navdušenja je povzročila možnost, da bi z njim lahko zdravili alkoholizem, vendar najnovejše študije pravijo, da ne). Zato verjetno GABA-B sama po sebi ne pojasnjuje fenibuta.

Kar zadeva mesto fenibuta v razvrstitvi po mehanizmu delovanja, se danes nanaša tako na agoniste receptorjev GABA kot na gabapentinoide. Dejstvo, da fenibut deluje kot gabapentinoid, je bilo odkrito razmeroma nedavno. Našel sem članke iz leta 2015, ki na to opozarjajo. Do takrat je fenibut veljal le za agonista receptorja GABAB. Toda njegovo gabapentinoidno delovanje je veliko šibkejše od delovanja samega gabapentina, zakaj naj bi bil torej njegov učinek močnejši?

Baklofen je boljši od fenibuta kot agonist GABA-B, gabapentin pa je boljši od fenibuta kot gabapentinoid, vendar fenibut deluje bolje od obeh. Čarobno! Ali gre morda za sinergijski učinek dveh različnih učinkov? Če bi bilo to res, bi pričakovali, da bo kombinirano jemanje gabapentina in baklofena imelo podoben učinek kot fenibut. Toda ti zdravili se včasih uporabljata za iste živčno-mišične bolezni in nihče nikoli ni opazil ničesar nenavadnega. Z veseljem bi si ogledal, kako se to preučuje, vendar ne pričakujem veliko.

Fenibut ima dva enantiomera, r-fenibut in s-fenibut. Oba sta spodobna gabapentinoida, vendar ima le r-fenibut aktivnost GABA-B. Če bi oba delovala enako dobro, bi to pomenilo, da fenibut deluje na A2D; če bi r-fenibut deloval bolje, bi to kazalo na GABA. Nekdo meni, da je fenibut verjetno bolj agonist GABA-B kot gabapentinoid, vendar этоне объясняет, zakaj se tako razlikuje od baklofena.

Obstaja točka, da ima baklofen nekaj težav s prepustnostjo krvno-možganske pregrade. Čeprav ga nekaj pride skozi, se lahko v plazmi kopiči veliko hitreje kot v možganih, zaradi česar ima nesorazmerno periferne učinke.


Priporočila

Fenibut kaže svojo učinkovitost pri tesnobi, strahu, obsesivnih stanjih, nespečnosti in nočnih morah, omotici. Pri abstinenci od alkohola, poživil ali evforetikov. V teh primerih je treba zdravilo jemati sproti.

Enkratni odmerek za odrasle je od 20 do 750 mg. 20 mg se zdi premajhen odmerek, v svoji praksi sem začel s 65 in dosegel 250 mg. Optimalni odmerek zame je 125 mg. Bolje je začeti z najmanjšim. Običajno se zdravilo jemlje 3-krat na dan: zjutraj popoldne in zvečer. Največji dnevni odmerek ne sme presegati 2,5 g (če je oseba stara več kot 8 in manj kot 60 let).

Fenibut je vredno jemati 2-3 tedne, tečaj lahko podaljšate do 6 tednov. Pri dolgotrajni uporabi in velikih odmerkih je treba spremljati kazalnike delovanja jeter in biokemično sliko periferne krvi. Med posameznimi tečaji je treba narediti 2-4 tedne premora. Po dolgotrajnem jemanju zdravila je bolje postopno prenehati.

Ni treba posebej poudarjati, da je fenibut potencialno zasvojljiv in lahko resno uniči vaše življenje. V skupnosti uporabnikov fenibuta velja splošno prepričanje, da lahko varno jemljete 500 mg enkrat na teden (ali morda na dva tedna). Če to presežete, hitro razvijete toleranco. Če boste povečali odmerek, da bi preprečili toleranco, se boste začeli počutiti slabše ob dnevih, ko ga ne boste jemali, ga boste vedno bolj uporabljali, da bi nadomestili odboj, in sčasoma boste dobili odtegnitveni sindrom, ki je tesno povezan z delirijem tremens, zaradi katerega včasih umrejo zdravljeni alkoholiki.

Fenibut podaljša in okrepi učinek hipnotikov, narkotičnih analgetikov, antiepileptičnih, antipsihotičnih in antiparkinsonskih zdravil. Prav tako ga ne smemo mešati z alkoholom in med jemanjem fenibuta izključiti ali vsaj zmanjšati uživanje slednjega.

Fenibuta ne smete uživati, če imate težave z želodcem - ima močan dražeč učinek na sluznico. Odmerek je smiselno zmanjšati vsaj, če čutite povečano zgago ali neprijetne občutke v želodcu.

Kar zadeva uporabo poživil, evforetikov, konoplje, kanabinoidov, psihedelikov. Na splošno vse snovi, ki v določenih okoliščinah neposredno ali posredno povečujejo anksioznost. Fenibut lahko te manifestacije zmanjša. Tako pri tistih, ki jih povzročajo neposredno zaradi uporabe, kot tudi pri tistih, pri katerih se pojavijo po uporabi. V teh primerih je smiselno jemati fenibut v enkratnem odmerku za odrasle od 20 do 750 mg. Žal bo treba odmerek izbrati samostojno - fenibut deluje precej individualno in je za različne ljudi zelo heterogen. Držimo se pravila: Začnemo z najmanjšim enkratnim odmerkom. Slikamo do delovnega odmerka. Višjega ne povečujemo.

Nekaj primerov na primer:
1. Oseba uporablja konopljo, vendar se pri njej v zadnjem času pojavljajo panične reakcije. Prekinitev, zamenjava razreda, nabora in nastavitev ne pomagajo. Vzemite 60-125-250 mg fenibuta 20-30 minut pred načrtovanim kajenjem (tukaj in v nadaljevanju so navedeni možni razponi odmerkov).

2. Oseba je imela seanso s poživili ali evforetiki. Ne načrtuje, da bo ta dan prekašala. Želi oditi in se spočiti. Boji se pojavov, značilnih za prenehanje delovanja teh snovi. Enkrat vzemite 250-375-500 mg fenibuta. Pijte mineralno vodo brez plina v majhnih obrokih. Izločite telesne napore, močne vidne, slušne in stresne dražljaje.

Fenibut se rekreativno uživa zaradi anksiolitičnih in evforičnih lastnosti, pri čemer se pogosto poroča o neželenih učinkih tolerance in odtegnitvenih sindromih. Peroralno se jemlje v povprečnem odmerku 2,4 g - to je res velik odmerek. V medicinski literaturi so opisani primeri uporabnikov, ki so prišli na urgentne oddelke močno pomirjeni ali z abstinenčnimi znaki. O smrtnih primerih, povezanih z uporabo fenibuta, niso poročali. Priporočam uporabo le v skladu z zgoraj opisanimi indikacijami in odmerki ali po posvetu z zdravnikom.

Bodite mirni in razumite, kaj boste storili s svojo nevrokemijo.
Kot vedno vabim vse zainteresirane k razpravi.
Zahvaljujem se vam za vaš čas.
 

HIGGS BOSSON

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Delo v podzemnem laboratoriju prinaša pravna tveganja. Mnogi razvijejo paranojo na tem ozadju, če se dlje časa ukvarjate z nezakonitimi dejavnostmi. Ali bo fenibut pomagal odpraviti paranojo, povezano s policijo?
 

mycelium

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Holy shit I thought I was the only one with pig-o-phobia
 

Paracelsus

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Po mojem mnenju lahko pri tem pomaga fenibut. Ne odpravi paranoje, saj je ta v opisani situaciji logična in realna. Lahko pa (tako kot drugi gabapentinoidi) pomaga pri anksioznosti, strahovladi, koncentraciji. Tako bo oseba lahko učinkoviteje opravljala stvari, mirneje preživljala čas zunaj dela in izboljšala kakovost življenja. Za to možnost je primeren načrt tečaja, ki je opisan v temi. To ni panaceja, temveč možnost.
 

blacky2340

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Osebno jem pregabalin, ki mi ga je sprva ponudil prijatelj, ki je zdravnik, za bolj kakovosten spanec. Zjutraj/dan vzamem 150 mg pregabalina, ki mi izboljša razpoloženje in resda zmanjša anksioznost, vendar ni nič takega kot zdravilo. Pred spanjem me 250-300 mg tako močno omrtviči, da lahko z njim naredim linijo hitrosti in me še vedno omrtviči. Ko sem ga prvič vzel pred spanjem, sem imel prvič sanje, ki so mi dejansko imele smisel in so bile tudi smiselne, nisem prepričan, da sem kdaj imel boljši spanec. (Imam afektivno motnjo razpoloženja, lahko grem teden dni brez spanja, dokler živahno ne haluciniram, kar je zame res težko)
Nisem poskusil fenibuta ali gabapentina, vendar sem prepričan, da delujeta na podoben način.
 

Paracelsus

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Tako je, vse te snovi spadajo med gabapentinoide. Vendar se njihovi mehanizmi delovanja lahko razlikujejo. To vodi tudi do razlik v učinkih in učinkovitosti. Včasih so nepomembne, včasih izrazite. Pri njihovi redni uporabi pa se je bolje izogibati povečevanju odmerka, in če začnejo učinki slabeti, je vredno razmisliti o možnosti odmora, da bi se izognili razvoju tolerance in odtegnitvenega sindroma. Ta je lahko neprijeten, vendar ga je povsem realno prenašati doma. Položaj seveda lahko otežijo obstoječe posebnosti vaše nevrokemije.
 

finch3523

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I think phenibut seems to interact more with stimulants like dexamphetamine compared to baclofen or pregabalin. I think it does increase dopamine much more when combined with amphetamines. to the point that you get tics, if you overdo it combined with not sleeping.

I also think the good mood and sharp cognition effect is some dopamine effect? If you take phenibut you need a lower stimulant dose. you might not even need one at all. just relax and still feel as if you have lots of dopamine.

I also know somebody personally who takes phenibut since years in doses of above 10g per day and his blood work shows normal. also read of other similar individuals on reddit. but there is a lot fear mongering about phenibut from individuals who are already very anxious and desperate before taking phenibut. which creates also a kind of self fullfilling prophecy.

I also think that high doses of phenibut over prolonged time seem not really detrimental.

You can taper down with baclofen or pregabalin. Have no experience with benzos.

But the basis would be good sleep, physical activity and good general health. And lots and lots of proteins.

Bodybuilders also seem to like it. I heard it might be because it increases growth hormone secretion while sleeping deeper. Training hard and resting deeper. Actually when you take phenibut before sleep and then really sleep well, then the next day you will feel amazing.

I noticed that for activities the effect of phenibut works especially well with something like guarana or coffeine. The feeling of well being and cognition enhancement is really increased. Also your physical and mental endurance is very increased....

I really would be interested in what hormones and repair mechanisms phenibut drives up.

I also read about experiments with cats where they put the animals in chamber with nervous gas. the ones who had phenibut in their blood took quite longer until their nervous system disintegrated.

If I do sauna on phenibut I noticed I can stay in sauna for very unusual long time. similarly for cold water exposure.

I also read that some parkinson patients added phenibut to their l-dopa after the l-dopa lost effect. with phenibut the l-dopa suddenly had effect again... which seems to confirm my observation of interaction with stimulants or for replacement on stimulant free days.

What you really should not do is just withdraw phenibut very quickly after you strained your body and mind with more extreme activities. especially when also not sleeping much. you should continue phenibut and take really really good amount of sleep and let phenibut help your body rebuild itself to full or stronger capacity quickly. then maybe do some exercise. and always a lot of proteins so the body has enough substrate to repair and rebuild without eating your muscles or other structures up. then you can reduce phenibut.

In my experience if you reduce or remove phenibut at the wrong point or way too quickly you will impair restoration and will suffer and damage yourself unnecessarily. if no phenibut is at hand then as said use baclofen or pregabalin. maybe have a tiny dose of quetiapine at hand (helps sleep quickly). If you start to put alcohol into the mix you will have bad outcomes. Then I think you might get bad withdrawals. I think body might not be able to regenerate quickly and the alcohol might also impair ability of the brain to reset itself. You can end up a long time sleepless which will end up in more and more fucked up withdrawals the longer you cannot sleep and restore mind and body.

very nice is always adding phenibut to all kind of other substances as basis. e.g. mdma. increases the effects and also lets you experience no comedowns whatever shit you did.

I noticed when looking tired and wrinkled after sleepless nights, then adding phenibut makes your skin suddenly look young, no eyebags, sharp eyes. Not sure what this is. Is this something dopamine related? do meth users also observe this? have not much experience with meth. only with d-amphetamine. Are these hormones? Is this just general energy output? increased cell metabolism efficiency??? providing energy and clearing the crap out???
 
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Paracelsus

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Phenibut has been shown to increase dopamine release in certain brain regions, such as the striatum, which could explain the enhanced mood, sharp cognition, and reduced need for stimulants that you described. This effect may synergize with amphetamines or l-dopa, amplifying their dopaminergic action and possibly leading to overstimulation (e.g., tics in cases of overuse). When combined with stimulants like d-amphetamine, phenibut’s calming yet dopamine-enhancing effects may reduce the need for higher stimulant doses.

Phenibut has been reported to stimulate growth hormone (GH) release during deep sleep. This could explain why bodybuilders and athletes find it beneficial—it enhances muscle repair, recovery, and anabolism during sleep cycles. The improved appearance you’ve noted after taking phenibut (e.g., reduced wrinkles, sharper eyes) could result from better hydration, blood flow, and possibly reduced cortisol levels, which phenibut may modulate via its calming effects. Increased tolerance for sauna and cold exposure might be linked to phenibut’s effects on stress response systems, possibly mediated by GABAergic and dopaminergic pathways.

You’ve identified an essential consideration regarding phenibut withdrawal:
Abrupt cessation can lead to severe GABAergic withdrawal symptoms, including insomnia, anxiety, and potentially seizures, due to receptor downregulation. As you suggested, tapering with baclofen or pregabalin (both also GABA_B receptor modulators) is an effective strategy. Emphasizing good sleep, physical activity, and adequate protein intake during withdrawal is excellent advice, as these support neurotransmitter synthesis (e.g., GABA, dopamine) and physical recovery.

Phenibut Safety at High Doses
While anecdotal reports suggest some people tolerate high doses, chronic high-dose use carries risks, including:
  • Tolerance and Dependence: Over time, receptors downregulate, requiring higher doses for the same effect.
  • Potential Neurotoxicity: high doses could disrupt normal neural signaling or lead to excitotoxicity during withdrawal.
  • Variable Impacts on Organ Health: Normal blood work isn’t always reflective of subtle, cumulative damage to organs like the liver or kidneys.

Phenibut’s ability to influence dopamine, growth hormone, and stress systems provides a basis for many of your observations. However, caution is warranted regarding high doses and combinations with other substances due to the risks of dependence, withdrawal, and overstimulation.
 

finch3523

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hey nice writing style ;) I also wanted to ask if you run your answer through AI first? I think AI is nice for summarizing things well that you or someone said and also give new ideas. But I noticed for such fringe stuff or grey area related to health experimentation that AI is often just retelling the conventional wisdom approach that sounds a bit like the following: "What you do is is dangerous, its good stay in a safe area like the following...".

I would find it interesting if AI would give suggestions and ideas that go more into these grey or as "dangerous" considered areas and challenges them with new perspectives... Kind of a biohacker AI model. Because I am sure there are lots of anecdotes and sciences that are very valuable to get a full picture and are not heard by mainstream science or are even suppressed because it would challenge their view of something (e.g. similar to Karl Hart with his opinion about different drugs e.g. methamphetamine).

I think if AI would do this then there would come out a different picture. Probably some more holistic one that would also show all kind of different routes of performance enhancing while still teaching you how to make sure that you would stay healthy and how to observe and measure it...
Instead I noticed the AI does seem to always try to lead me back to stay in lane of what most people are saying about the substance...

Is it understandable what I mean?

Any idea on how to get more perspectives and knowledge about phenibut? Maybe the AI can be prompted differently, or there are models that have different ethical filters, or there are models that are made in a way to find and build these ideas?

Also regarding damage for liver and kidneys... Are there not all kind of blood markers for subtle or more severe damage to these two organs? I mean if you did do a good weightlifting session a couple of days before your bloodwork then all this also shows up in the blood panels (lots of docs dont know this and think you have liver or heart damage which is super ridiculous and really shows how bad informed mainstream docs are)...

Before I once did a big panel with many many metrics... There were kidney markers and lots of other stuff I never heard about before... Had to run the stuff through AI to get a bit of explanation of what this actually is...

Any idea which markers could be used here with phenibut that are really sensitive to early changes?

Lastly there is also this whole addiction mainstream thinking... I think the picture of addiction in mainstream science (ok I am not 100% sure what the current mainstream paradigm is, if its disease model or dysfunctional behavioural loops or whatever) is really flawed... I noticed that if you can do deeper shifts in thinking and kind of restructure some things more coherent on a personal level that integrates more things to make you more functional or have more holistic view on your life (maybe with help of psychedelic agents or similar) then it might be very well the case that you could sometimes almost instantly reduce high oder higher intake of substances to a much lower level... At least I noticed this... Ok also maybe depends also on more context factors e.g. if you have good health or fucked up health... But you can look at this story here share on the website of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association For Psychedelic Institute) to get a feel for it: https://shorturl.at/6z4Wu
I think there are so many blind spots and excluded perspectives when discussing substances and then platforms like reddit are echo chambers that prime or frame the mind of the readers... and this leads to the kind of self fullfilling prophecies that kind of confirm the mainstream science stuff that is based on the principles: 'better dont do this, this is dangerous. you harmed yourself, you are criminal and sick, take our by "science" supported medicine. other perspective we dont know and they are not supported'
ok maybe I kind of exaggerate a bit to make my point clear ;) Although my personal experiences with the system were like this.... And I think AI currently has a lot of these tendencies to support such mainstream views also and not really challenges them enough or gives new impulses for discovery.

Or to say the whole thing a bit shorter... I think a lot of science or the evaluation of the science for all of this made from people with a frame of mind that is coming from a perspective of "fear and stigma" and are leaving a lot of things out that might be visible or discoverable from a different frame of mind that is more curious, open and challenging of existing ideas.

Btw do you have any personal experiences with phenibut and any cool insights from it?

thx!!!
 

finch3523

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@Paracelsus ah this last answer of mine was for you
 

Paracelsus

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AI can really give us a lot, but on topics like this, it can only work with unconstrained models that are specially trained on the necessary knowledge bases. This is a difficult and expensive task, and even when it is performed, the results must be verified by qualified specialists, because AI hallucinates and produces a lot of false information.

If you look at the publication date, you will see that the article was created before the public release of any of the large text models.

As for my experience, phenibut gives me headaches, which makes me sad. I have friends who successfully solve some of their problems and stabilize their conditions with phenibut. I also see that it helps patients in certain cases. However, this substance is really too variable and will not suit everyone.
 

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They solve their problems and stabilize their conditions? Can you describe?
Regarding the specially trained models. Did you see or created such models? This sounds very interesting.
 

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The ones that come to mind first are stress disorders, anxiety issues, sleep, alcohol withdrawal, PTSD and even vestibular disorders. As for the models, I haven't come across any, as I wrote above, LLMs training is an expensive and difficult task, but over time we may see the emergence of such models based on open source solutions.
 
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